Hi Dave,
I am currently a UOP student, and I can tell you that UOP is most certainly not a degree mill. I think of the small institutions that charge you an arm and a leg for basic training that you could learn on the job, a degree mill. UOP puts its students through the ringer (in a good way) when it comes to course material. I have had to do way more critical thinking in these classes, and turn out a heck of a lot more homework in UOP then any other school. I think that they compensate for the fact that you are not in a classroom setting by having such an intensive curriculum. At times it is overwhelming, but I am only in my second class and already feel I have learned so much.

My wife just completed two years of course work at UOP to EARN her BS Nursing. The ability to "attend" classes any time of the day or night worked well for her. In fact she was often up and on-line when I woke up to go to work the next morning many times. The assignments for most classes were demanding in the amount of research required to provide an answer. Each assignment was then blogged by the other students in the class ( if I am using the word correctly). There were group projects for most classes that required a group of student to work together to complete a class project. My daughter also completed her MS in business and accounting recently at UOP. Her experiences were similar. One funny comment from her HR Director at her office was that on-line schools lacked interaction. In a traditional class I could sit in the back and never say a word the entire course. At UOP interaction is the way most classes are accomplished along with writing a paper a week. The instructors are able to evaluate the students on daily work and get a good feeling of who is doing what work.

Is the process infallible? No more than attending any brick and mortar program. This includes the quality of the instructors, their participation and grading. All in all my wife and daughter worked hard and learned as much as going to any other qualified school. They just saved a lot of time by not having to drive there.

In my opinion, the term 'degree mill' coupled with UOP is an oxymoron.

Hi Dave,

I am currently in my 3rd class at the UoP and also I am considering dropping completely to attend a "traditional" university. Why you may ask? Several reasons really.

My last instructor for CSS/330 was completely unorganized. Her weekly assignments that were listed in the syllabus contradicted what she asked us to do in her weekly postings for those assignments. When asked about that, she told us to go by what was in the syllabus, only to turn around and grade us down on our assignments because we did not follow what was posted online. She did not make any sense at all to any of my classmates. I know of 4 people including myself that have lodge complaints to the administration about her. I am certain that there are many more that have complained too, I just have not heard of any others publically voicing their opinions about this particular teacher.

I also, tested her grading skills so-to-speak... One of my assignments was to write a case study in regards to health care. I deliberately wrote the paper without using correct grammar usage and several puncuation mistakes as well. I wanted to see what kind of grade I would receive. I expected a C or D on that paper, but amazingly she thought the paper was wonderful and gave me a A minus. I was completely blown away by that grade and am still mystified by it.

Now granted I really have not entered my core classes yet (B.S. IT) and won't until the next class, but since I am in my third class I still feel, even from day one of my first class that I am not being challenged much. I went to DeVry before Phoenix and thinking about my experiences at DeVry almost brings shudders to mind. DeVry was difficult for me and I am not certain why. The degree of difficulty could be that I went to DeVry straight out of high school. I am now 26 and have roughly 11 years in the I.T. Industry and many industry specific certifications as well. I just do not feel challenged much at Phoenix. I have a 4.0 average, which I never had at DeVry and even in High School.

Maybe I need to give UoP a little time to challenge me, but the way I look at it, they're getting my money and I hope before the end of this class I get my money's worth in terms of the quality of the education that I am receiving. At nearly $350 a credit hour, it's definitely not your bargain education.

The plus side of UoP is their material and the library services. I think the UoP's library services are completely awesome and are truly helpful to the students at UoP. DeVry never had anything like this and probably still do not to this day.

I wish I could find employment statistics online in regards to placement of UoP graduates who have the BSIT degree. Do you know where I could find this information besides from UoP? I'd like to see unbiased information on that subject if it exists.

Anyway, just thought I'd give you my $0.02 on the subject of UoP.

I am on my last classs at UOP online. I transfered in 50 credit hours and have finished the remainder of the 123 required online. It has been both indepth and challenging. I have read more and studied harder than I thought I would have to. I was a skeptic when I first started but I quickly found that it was better (for me) than any of the classroom time that I had spent previously.

I am one third of the way through the MBA program and I would have to agree that the notion that online work lacks interaction is far from the truth. We interact all the time on a daily basis, partly because we work in groups. I interact more in these classes than I ever did in traditional classes. I think the instructors I've had so far are experienced in their fields, but sometimes wonder whether they read all the papers we write or not. However, the learning process has already taken place by the amount of effort you put into your work, not the grade you get. This is a situation where the more you put into it, the more you get out of it, and that work will show up in how you do your job and what you understand now that you wouldn't have ever understood without course studies. UOP has worked well for me.

I've been a student at UoP for over 2 years now (BSIT) and can say that it's probably the best education for "real world applications" of technology related skills that you're going to find. I've attended community college, researched 4 year programs all over the heart of the Silicon Valley (when I lived there) and they all paled in comparison to the course material covered by UoP. Yup, you read that right... the traditional 4 year programs SUCKED in comparison. This comes from someone who's been in the industry for the better part of 12 years now and done everything from hardware to help desk to contracting and programming. I found NO school in the bay area that even came close to UoP from a course content perspective. They were all theory with no practical application, entry level stuff at best. What you learn at UoP is what you'll use in the real world... pure and simple. Up to date material and you're not encouraged, but FORCED to participate to maintain a passing grade. And when the instructor doesn't know something? Chances are somebody in your class WILL know it and be able to expand on the curriculum even further. It's called collaborative learning for a reason.

My advice to those who are worried about how a potential employer will view the degree is this: If they don't understand the value of the education you received, you don't want to work for them anyway. Find someone who DOES understand how much work goes in to a UoP degree... how much the instructors offer because they actually work in the industry, and how up to date the covered material is. You'll be happy you did.

I am a student with UOP in my last class of my Masters degree. I finished my BS through UOP and was so happy with it that I continued on with my Masters. UOP is no diploma mill. There is a lot of work involved in getting your degree. I feel bad that one of the people making comments had a bad teacher, but I don't think this is the case in most instances. I have definitely been challenged but have done my best work by going to school this way. I like that you have to apply what you learn to your job. I have nothing bad to say about UOP. I recommend it to everyone and always will.

I am enrolled in UoP and find it quite challanging. I think I get more out of the online experience. There is no 'raising hands' hoping an instructor will call on you. There is an immediacy to the responses. The quality of the instructors is no different than what I experienced at conventional schools. Some teachers are excellent and helpful, some so-so and some - well, I would never recommend them.

I've been at UOPhoenix Online for almost two years now and with every class I am increasingly regretting my decision.

I have a number of reasons, since you asked. :)

1) Staff turnover is ridiculous. Every four-five months I have a new financial and/or academic counselor, and each one blames the one before them for mistakes to my calendar/billing.

2) Most instructors seem to be disjointed with their syllabus. As someone else here pointed out, there is much discrepancy with the posted syllabus and official class syllabus, and the teacher bounces around with which is accurate.

3) Instructors give almost zero feedback on graded papers. It has been over a year since I've received back a "red lined" paper of any kind showing me specific ways to improve my papers. Comments are always generic and terse.

4) I occasionally review other students' papers and am embarrassed by what they turn in. I assume they pass, but I really don't know. Their understanding of APA is atrocious and their display of grammar is even worse. And I'm in BA classes now.

5) I also see a lot of plagiarism that goes unchecked. Just today I read 5 classmates papers and 2 of them had blatant plagiarism that I was able to find with 5 seconds of Google. I once reported it and the student still passed.

6) I've requested multiple times to have someone contact me about the quality of a class at the end-of-class survey, and never been asked to elaborate.

7) Once an instructor literally took a 1½ week vacation and left us without feedback, grades, assignments, or anything for 10 days. The entire class complained to anyone who would listen, wrote letters to the dean, and still each of us had to individually fight for a credit to take the class again, and those who didn't complain never got a credit.

8) Class syllabi rarely reference any more than 25% of the rEsource, yet we pay $60 per class for this unused digital medium.

9) I have yet to run into a business professional (ie: someone who might hire you) that actually gives any credibility to a UOPhoenix degree.

10) I was forced to take basic classes (in math and English) that only until after I took (and paid for) the class was I told by a different employee that I could have tested out of them and saved about $3000 and 3 months.

What is sad is that all of these issues I have with UOPhoenix Online are not inherent of being an online university. There is clearly an issue with management and the direction of the University. It cares little for the quality of alumni that it produces.

I am a current employee with UOP and I can openly say that "yes we are a degree mill"...Our admissions department will enroll anybody (no matter what their background holds). In fact our campus recently enrolled a 75 year old woman into our Computer Technology program who has never touched a computer in her life. As I spoke with her more, she also cannot speak english as well. Apparently she has 3.4 GPA in her program...Also our Online program is a joke (in my opinion). You might as well teach yourself and save over $30, 000 dollars...I mean there is not even a simple lecture explaning anything in each course. Student's are just expected to miraculous pull the answers out of their head....

I am really disappointed with the University of Phoenix. They did not tell me that i would be a student of the state of Arizona. I do not like this. All my life I wanted to graduate with my master's degree and they are cheating me out of this. They bait and switch. They should have told me that i would be a student of arizona. Now i have to pay for FBI check, take the test in arizona and see if the university's meet my state requirement. This is too much. Also, why is the fee so expensive? We are really teaching ourselves

I started UoP in May 2003 and will graduate in October 2005. I have had the opportunity to attend both brick-and-mortar as well as online classes. I have to say that the online experience has developed my personal and professional skills much more effectively and deeply than when I attended the brick-and-mortar campus. The level of classroom discussions and active involvement, the research and organization required, the commitment, and commuication requirements are extensive. My program has taught me to take what I have learned, apply these skills and the knowledge into my personal and professional live, and to think critically. The countless papers have vastly improved my writing abilities, increased my ability to be more concise, and greatly improved my confidence.
In addition, UoP requires every course to be comprised of teams for some of the activities. Although many people may complain about having to be on teams and rather focus only on individual assignments, the team concept is part of our everyday professional life. If we can master working together remotely in a team of different viewpoints, personalities, and timezones to turn out a stellar assignment, then we can certainly gain great skills that we can use in our professional life. When there are team members who choose to have substandard participation in the team, the team must determine how to handle the situation and not allow the dysfunctional member destroy the collaboration with the rest of the team. It's REAL LIFE!!!
Sure, you get ineffective and unorganized instructors periodically just as you do attending a ground campus. However, as a working adult, I certainly do not need an instructor to hold my hand through the learning process. In these types of situations, the students must take the initiative to teach themselves, initiate the classroom discussions, and move on.
Fortunately, I have MANY more exceptional experiences than I do negative. You learn from the negative and then simply move on.

UOP is a corporate conglomerate that sells education like another company would sell a widgit. Recruiters have quota's, adjunct professors are pressured to inflate grades, students share their grade with their "Team", and the Apollo stock keeps going up ... and the beat goes on ...

Try Nova Southeastern University - it's a REAL school. Undergraduate and graduate programs offered 100% online.

As a senior IT manager, who has reviewed hundreds of applications for employment, I can say unequivocally that a degree from UoP in BSIT would be given the same or lesser weight as a certification course offering from one of the established IT training vendors like Global Knowledge, Learning Tree or Westlake. In fact, if the applicant actually went on and passed the test to become a MCSE, CCNE, etc., they would rise above a student with just a UoP BSIT because they usually can do real work immediately without additional training.

UoP is considered to be a diploma mill and you won't convince many IT managers otherwise. And for the person who offered this gem: "If they don't understand the value of the education you received, you don't want to work for them anyway", I'm thinking you still live at home with your parents and can afford such a cavalier attitude towards the state of your finances.

My advice for IT job seekers? Save yourself thousands of dollars and get some industry standard certifications under your belt...

I have attended the Flexnet and online MBA program through UOP and am currently just over halfway completed with the program. The majority of classes have been very informative and I have learned more than I ever did in my traditional bachelor's degree program. In 8 classes I have had 2 excellent instructors, 4 superior instructors, 1 fair instructor and I currently am struggling through with an very inadequate and disorganized instructor. At the end of each class UOP does survey the students regarding the class, curriculum and instructor. I will be making full use of this opportunity.

As far as the change in schedule, I did not appreciate this change and I feel the change has actually caused me to lose more weekend time. This may be due to the inadequate instructor for this course though and compounded by the excessive workload for this class. As most people work during the normal businessweek, this change in schedule has made it more difficult to be prepared when it comes to deadline time. In prevous classes bulk time on the weekends was utilized to read material, get organized for the weekly project and assimilate the material. The Teusday start date coincides with one of the busiest segments of the week for most working people. This causes a problem with reading, organizing and assimilating the information as it causes a time and attention struggle between work committments and school committments. Since this is the case, more students are waiting later in the week to get into the weekly task which has taken out any leeway on the deadline. It has also caused problems with being able to submit to the center for writing excellence. There is no way to read, assimilate and write while also juggling the work schedule, this then makes it to late to submit a document for review.

Overall the classes have been wonderful. The business offices and financial office at UOP need some major overhaul though. They do not appear to follow their own curriculum in teaching employees to do their jobs as far as moral and ethical processes and procedures. As it is end of financial aid year, I have been proactive on completing requirements for the next segment of financial aid. The financial aid office has been dragging their feet for over 60 days, have lost my information twice so far (sensitive financial and personal information) and recommended this morning that I go ahead and enroll in the next class without funding in place and that it would fall into place eventually. These types of practices if they continue may be the downfall of this fast growing organization.

I have been a full-time student with University of Phoenix Online since Aug 2, 2001. I earned a BSB/MKT (bachelor marketing) In July 2004, and have currently completed 6 classes towards the MBA/HRM (Human Resources). I have had many of the same feelings each of you have, and have come to several conclusions.

(1) Non-profit Universities advertise to keep enrollment quotas on target, and have many of the same problems Uophx does, so diploma-mill arguments are dead. Perhaps brick-and-mortar professors who oppose Uophx should teach a Uophx Online Course before making their unresearched arguments. They just might like the flexibility and group collaboration they experience versus their typical lecturing/testing teaching styles

(2) Arguments about the weekly schedule (Tuesday-Monday), team assignments, participation requirements, and lack of a kinesthetic, brick-and-mortar learning environment are nothing more than "wimp-chat." When it comes right down to it, you can't find the flexibility and autonomy afforded by the Uophx asynchronous online program anywhere else. I've had 2 bad instructors in 4 years at Uophx, when 90% of my previous junior college instructors were completely ineffective. At the end of the day, you learn when you truly want to learn, regardless of the environment. If anything, be glad that Uophx instructors actually work in the real world and are willing to teach in their spare time - there's credibility to learning from someone who interacts professionally in actual business environments and sees it firsthand everyday.

(3) If you're worried about the quality of education, then you must be missing something. The textbooks/e-Resources are always current within 1-2 years, and the online library articles discussing the current business environment and the class discussions can always be aligned with the text to prove that the concepts are current and proven.

(4) IT Students - you should have never enrolled at Uophx. The only complaints about Uophx during the Undergraduate Capstone Course were from those in the BSIT program. Most came in knowing more than they learned in 2-3 years during the BSIT program. Perhaps technology is too diverse and rapidly changing to be learning it in an online degree program. I agree with the person who said go for the certifications being offered out there and get a job. You're more valuable getting specialized certs and learning it the right way on-the-job as part of a technology team at a major corporation.

(5) The cost is roughly $23,000 if it takes 2 years to complete a bachelors and $25,000 for a Masters, which is on par with other private Universities. Let's say worse case scenario a student comes out with both degrees and $45,000 in student loans... if consolidated under the SMARTLoan Consolidation option at 3.7% for 25 years, the monthly payment is $238 per month. If you have an MBA, it won't take too long to be able to afford the minimum payment and then some. Most students receive employer-paid tuition assistance, military benefits, etc... Federal Aid is very generous, and in my opinion, if it's all you have to work with, you're better off having the education at a price in the long run. Even financial advisors recommend borrowing for the top 3 - Homes, Transportation, and Education - nearly all other types of borrowing can be considered unnecessary in comparison.

(6) Unfortunately, you're going to have students who are lazy, lack discipline, and who would never pass in a traditional college, and these students most often pass. Exceptional students have expressed concern about the perceived value of a Uophx Online education due to these types of problems, but you can rest assured that these types will not get far in the workplace, and that these types come out of all business schools - not just Uophx Online.

Thank you for your comments and time,

Bill Thompson
UoP Online Student
MBA/HRM Program

I graduated from UOP in 2003 with a masters in curriculum and instruction, and I am now considering the doctoral program. I can honestly say that those were the hardest - but most rewarding - 19 months of work I've ever done.

What the "you need the face time in the classroom in order to have a decent education" people miss is the actual importance of *content*. I personally formulate and convey my thoughts much more succinctly in writing than by raising my hand and verbalizing them. Human interaction is something I get every day in the teaching field - I don't require it to do a project or write a research paper. Every question I've ever had of a UOP prof has been answered completely and to my satisfaction, thereby enabling me to churn out my best work based on my understanding and interpretation of the subject matter. Case closed. Stuff learned.

One of my colleagues, who was attending a brick-and-mortar for the same degree I was pursuing online described to me what his first 3-hour class was like: "we spent 90 minutes going around the room, telling our names and answering the question, 'if you were a car, what kind of car would you be?'" So the "face time" argument is basically crap. There are bad profs everywhere who waste your time and couldn't care less about your educational journey. It's just too easy to blame it all on the online community.

I forwarded "Jay's" comments to my UOP advisor to get his take on them. Maybe "Jay" should work somewhere else. Or take a UOP course program to advance in the workplace ... hell, they'd accept ya!

I recently participated in the UoP Pittsburgh Campus commencement exercises on June 25, 2005. I did, however, finish my program in March 2005. It was the most challenging 18 months of my life. The amount of work and research requried for my assignments, participation or otherwise completely blew my Bachelor's Degree out of the water. I did have a few bad professors, and some lectures that didn't come close to the participation questions asked, however I came out knowing more about managing an IT department and IT projects than I did going in.

While they were a bit soft in the techical area (I already have a BS in IT from a PA State School), I got a very good education in Business Law, Accounting, Communications, and Project Management.

I would have to say that I truly enjoyed my experence, and learned quite a bit. Were there problems? Yes! Did I have these similar issues as an undergraduate at a PA State System School? YES!

I came to this site from reading OX Fanantics on a newsreader. I was looking to enroll in the Doctor of Management earlier this week and I saw this item of UoP. Does anyone have any PhD experience with UoP?

I currently attend UOP BSIT and I am enjoying the flexibility and the challenge. As for a BS from UOP not being valuable that is BS. A degree wont get you a job, it gets you an interview. You can have a degree from any University and if your an idiot your not geting the job anyway. I was told my degree from ITT Tech was worthless as well. I found a job working for a major government contractor with it.They offer tuition reimbursment so I decided to take advantage of it. Like any topic some people would rather complain and blame others for there shortcomings.
A complaint I do have is the group atmosphere. You must count on others you never met before and if they dont pull their weight then it effects your grade.

Not only do I work for the University of Phoenix, but I am also a student. I have found through working and attending UoP that not only is the university a great place to work for, but it is one of the best private universities in my opioion. I have attened other private universities and have found that UoP is not only more willing to teach the information that is necessary to get the degree that is desired, but UoP will do everything in its power to keep you up to date with all of the changes that the coorporate world makes. With the UoP being geared towards working adults, they are truely aware of how hard getting a college education is while working full time. With the flexibility of the online classes, students are able to attend class when it is convient for them. How many other universities do this?

Univeristy of Phoenix is the way to go for a full time working adult who does not have the time to attend a more tradtional college as other univeristies are labled.

I've attended UoP for 2 1/2 years anticipating graduation this fall. Talk about bait and switch, UoP counselors showed me at enrollment that with my licenses and certificates I would have easily 30 units towards the required 120.

No dice, with just 2 classes to go I'm told that they've changed their criteria and I now have to take 10 more classes... the terrible thing is in order to graduate from a university you must have attended for at least 45 units, they got me now.

Shame on me for being so naive. I never would have allowed this charade to have gone on that long in my business affairs.

TO all of you reading thsi for the quality of education. I have attended only on campus UoP and my wife took some of the same classes concurrent to mine on-line. Her experience and education was much more fulfilling then mine

I am a current UoP student in a graduate program. I am roughly 4 courses from finishing my 2 year program. The promise of the UoP was a great motivator into enrolling at UoP. I tried attending a traditional university in the past, for my second degree, and it was too difficult given my work schedule. What the UoP offers to career adults, with the promise of flexible education, is great. The execution has been less so. The deliver technology is good and has gotten better since I started in the program, especially with some of the materials and research resources. I have the following issues:
1. Quality of students. I had student in my class who could not communicate and had little understanding of English. Some students could not understand the material and had such poor spelling and grammar, that I could not believe they were graduate students. They also did not work at the level of a graduate student
2. Instructors. Some instructors were quite poor, and do not supply lectures or proper feedback on work.
3. High costs. Twice, I have experienced tuition increases. Although this happens at traditional universities as well, the program is relatively quite expensive compared to a traditional university, which requires physical facilities.
4. Poor quality overall. Too easy to get an A. You can slide your way to an A with little effort. I purposely did not submit work, with the expectation that I would not get an A, only to be surprised.

Overall, I would not recommend the UoP for anyone at this time, unless the program and way it is managed changes. The goals marketed to the public are correct (flexible, adult education), but the corporate goals of the Apollo Group conflict with the goals of an educational institution. It is possible to get some knowledge from the program, but this requires the student to read all the materials. Otherwise, a student can obtain a high grade with little effort.

This web site is definitely one of the strangest...I have to say I stumbled upon it while debating on whether or not to go to UOP and it has not cleared a single solid question of mine. First of all it is a Private Univ. if you don't have the money simply go elsewhere, as simple as that! The topic I was concerned with was life after UOP: Did you have issues pursuing future degrees, MBA, Law etc, at other institutions, where there concerns regarding accreditation when taking the CPA exam, BAR exam? Did you encounter problems while pursuing employment?

Yours truly ...

I graduated from UoPhx with an MSCIS back in 1999. I have often wondered was the choice of attending this university a mistake. I chose the school because in the computer field, one has to constantly study to keep up, so for me the degree just serves as a right of passage. Where I earned the degree shouldn't matter as I felt I would have to keep studying long after I received the degree. Not everyone feels this way.

I have applied for jobs in which people have questioned the validity of my degree and have regarded UoP as a diploma mill. Once I got in the door, I was able to show off my skills and the attitude changed. In more than a few cases, having the MS got me places that others could not go. For that I am grateful, but make no mistake, there is a stigma attached to this school.

During the time that I attended, I found the work to be very challenging. You got out of it what you put into it. Period. This would be the case for any MS program, anywhere. There were plenty of group projects, and some of those I had to carry others along. Again, this is common in other schools. The school is expensive, and therefore limits those that can attend. Still, leeches are able to sneak through, but again this is common in any university. The attrition rate was very high when I attended, meaning it was hard enough for people to drop like flies due to the work load. Not common in a 'diploma mill'.

Would I do it all again? Probably, simply based on convenience alone. Not having to commute from work or home to school saved a lot of time and allowed more time to study. I might however, chose an online program from a school with a better name, just from the aspect of prestige. Having your schools name plastered all over the web offering degrees does not help alleviate the stigma at all.
-D-

UoP is not a degree mill. For those who think UoP's online curriculum is easier than traditional school, I challenge you to take a few classes. Communication is the ability to get your thoughts across, written and oral; as such UoP demanding writing curriculum will ensure you at least have the tools to do just that, in a professional way. You will learn to write, and converse with others if nothing else, and conduct research before putting foot in mouth. There are no benchwarmers sitting on the sidelines with this institution. Material is first rate, and the online tutorials and help from administrators is great. Teachers are not cookie cutters from your local five and dime community college, but actual teachers who know their stuff, and have worked in the fields they teach, and are all that and a bag of chips. So for those who have a demanding "life" schedule and can not find the time to "go to class", log on, plug in, and feel confident that you will truly "earn" your degree with UoP.

I'm currently researching master's programs in mental health counseling and am struggling with UoP's general reputation. I work in the field of mental health and have discovered that the professionals at my job have diverse opinions on UoP (even though they are hired at my organization). I live in one of 3 states (I am told) that prefers therapists who have their LCSW instead of LPC. Just my luck. In my city there are only 2 programs offered to prepare you to be an LPC and UoP is one of them. It is a campus based program and sounds impressive. And it has higher acceditation than the state university's. My main concern is the prejudice surrounding the UoP...and how this will affect my employability. If anyone out there can shed light on this, or can share related experiences, I would appreciate it!

I've looked into Capella University's mental health counseling program as the next possible alternative (since they are the only online U with CACREP accreditation--and are rated very highly) and it also sounds impressive. Does anyone have any experience with or info on either/both of these programs?

I've heard that UoP used to accept practically anyone in this program, but in recent years have revamped and improved some aspects of the program--one of which was to bring in a Harvard professor as Dean of the department. I've been impressed with the cordial and helpful approach of their staff, but have also heard that students have been given wrong information. I suppose in an imperfect world, we should expect that--it happens at "regular" U's as well! My undergraduate degree is from Northwestern and, while I found it to be an excellent university, I encountered a few really bad teachers and some dirty politics. Such is life...

Have you taken classes at UP Online, and if so, what was your experience
and how did you like the overall program?

I have just recently completed my BSIT at UoP Online, and I will have to
say that overall it is a very good program. Yet, I really believe that
the program may not be the best fit for everyone. For instance, one of my
associates at work has a friend who attempted the online program but had
to transfer to the ground program because of the rigors imposed by the
online course of study. I will not say that the program is "easy," but I
will say it is very convenient. My main impetus for pursuing a degree
online was that I had done very well taking correspondence courses in
that past. Self-discipline and tenacity is a definite must for this program.
Please pardon the cliche, but "you get out of it what you put into it." And
that definitely rings true at UoP.

The biggest frustration for me was the group or team requirements for each
course. All things considered, it was also the biggest area of growth for
me personally and professionally. To be able to interact, manage projects,
resolve conflicts, and achieve the team's goals and do this in an online
setting is simply remarkable. When conflicts were to difficult to resolve
online, it is entirely permissible to call either your teammates or facilitator
if necessary. If you can survive UoP Online up to commencement time,
chances are you will be the proverbial "team player" frequently sought
after in employment ads.

As for interaction with other students, this is an absolute requirement to
achieve a passing grade. The Main Newsgroup is where the bulk of the actual
learning occurs. The quantity of posts at times can be overwhelming though. I
learned so much from my other classmates. Now mind you, I already have 10+
years of professional experience in IT, but in every course I pulled out
golden nuggets of information that have been a boon for both me and my
company.

I had originally thought that UoP was too pricey. Yet when I factored in the
hidden costs and the time associated with attending a brick-and-mortar, UoP
turned out to be a better deal overall. My current employer promised tuition
assistance as a perk of my agreeing to rejoin the company but subsequently
renegged on the deal. Nonetheless, I accepted the responsibility of financing
my learning. To offset the costs, I opted to make monthly payments on my
student loan while attending UoP. Another close friend who attended UoP and
who had tuition reimbursement is now indentured to her company for an
unspecified period of time.

UoP's stigma in the marketplace was a concern to me, but any profitable company
will be a target of the masses. I found that the majority of the administrative
staff was very helpful. I had some marginal service a few times, but this can
happen with any company. Nearly all of my facilitators (instructors) were
phenomenal in one way or another. There was once course where I did not care for
the instructor enough that I cancelled after one week.

In retrospect, UoP Online is a great way to go to school for persons who have
schedules that prevent them from attending a brick-and-mortar. I have not decided
whether or not to complete a Masters at UoP, since I would like to experience a
different school (preferrably no teams :), however, UoP laid the necessary
groundwork for the future.

I have been attending UPO since February,I must say that it is very challenging. I have had great instructors and you have to put forth the effort for a successful outcome. The library is great and the information online in awesome. I spend more time interacting than I would in a traditional setting. I like the fact that I can get up day or night and get online to do my work. This type of forum works out great for me and my family.There is a lot of reading material and the assignments are challenging. I have been very pleased with this program so far. I just hope that I continue to get great instructors through this program, they really makes the difference. Not every one has the ability to teach effectively but for the ones that do I look forward to a great learning experience at the UPO.

I have four classes left in an MA program at UOP. I have a BA from a Cal State school. The courses are challenging, and I have learned quite a lot. The teachers are facilitators of learning which requires me to become more of a self-learner. Is that a bad thing? No. Once I leave UOP, I will have more skills to continue my education informally than I did when I left a state school. The flexibility has enabled me to continue my education while working full-time as a teacher, serving in the reserves, supporting a family, and making a cross-country move. My advisors have been amazing. With my schedule, I would rather have my hand held while applying for financial aid. If you want your hand held during class than you will need a more traditional program. I, too, have had good and bad teachers; but my learning experience out weighs the negative. By the way, A's are not a given. I know a woman who reviews grade reports for finacial aid, she will tell you that the grade reports from UOP students use to be commonly A's, but under more scrutiny, UOP has cleaned up their act and grades run the spectrum. I have a good friend who just received a "C." If a UOP student has a complaint, the need only to make it. I've had one complaint about one teacher, Once the teacher broke a UOP guideline, the instructional coordinators were contacted and action was taken within 24 hours. Plus, all students have a right to post comments on their end of course feedbacks that are taken very seriously by UOP staff. Those who asked about life after UOP, I can tell you that I have a job now working for the government that I would never have been qualified for if it was not for UOP. Will I be able to be a professor at a traditional university with my UOP degree? Probably not. Can I teacher online or be an adjunct professor? Probably, since I now have a degree to compliment my ten years of experience.

Hey everyone...just for the record, I'm 47, have an AA in CIS and have just hit the 23 year mark with my company. I've been kicking around the idea of going for a BS. I'm not looking for a new job. I just want to improve my educational record and maybe reduce the chance of being let go if the company looks to downsize (again). I decided to look into UOP. A little surfing brought me to this site. I'm really surprised at the intensity of the comments, both good and bad (i.e. teachers, team issues, management, etc). As an example, some members insinuate that UOP will pass anyone where others claim the work is very challenging. Although I don't want to breeze through, I don't want to be swamped with assignments either. In addition to my regular week-day job I work a part-time job (one day on the weekend) and would like to continue to spend some time with my family. For those of you who have attended several classes, could you please give me an idea of how much time per week (on average) you spend on your studies?
Thanks

To answer Stephen. I'm in my last BSIT class and I typically put in around 5-6 hours per week for my UOP classes, depending on the subject and/or the instructor. I carry a modest load with a government IT supervisory day job (I actually work! :-) ), a business-only consulting business, I also attend traditional college, and most importantly, I spend time with my family. Frankly, it's all time management. It can be very challenging; however, it is worth the effort if it is a personal goal to have a Bachelor's degree. However, as a few people have noted, it is what you make of it. I recommend, though, not to go to UOP with the expectation of the program being an ITT or a DeVry in its technical deliverence.

"When you learn to better understand, better appreciate and eventually love yourself, you exude a quiet confidence that will open doors to what you want in life."

I've read some interesting comments here and I'd like to add a few of my own. I've been taking back-to-back classes with UOP for nearly two years. Some of my classes have been excellent and others have been, well, less than excellent. Just as with any other college, you should expect to have good/bad classes and teachers. That's part of the college experience anywhere!

As far as a UOP degree being worthless....well, that's just ridiculous. UOP is an accredited institution, not some fly-by-night pseudo school that prints you a degree for writing an essay and sending in a check for $8000. Besides, a degree never really gets you a job. It may help you get your foot in the door, but then it's up to you to sell yourself. I've been working for the same company (a global pharmaceutical company) for more than 18 years and quite honestly, it doesn't seem to matter where someone gets his or her degree. In my company, the degree is what helps you get an interview--then it's up to you to get the job.

For those who think UOP is the easy way to get your degree.....don't waste your time applying. It takes a substantially amount of time and effort to make it through a degree program. The class material is the same as the ground campus material, so expect to spend some quality time reading and writing for class.

Julian,
I appreciate your reply. That's the kind of comments I was looking for.

Many thanks and all the best,
Stephen

Hey there my fellow and or future matriculators,

I'm three classes away from degree completion for my MBA @ UOP via FlexNet. For anyone who believes that this process is a degree mill they need to think further. This is an accredited school. With that said, there are instructors that may rub you the wrong way or may simply be inept...unfortunately that is true with all learning institutions. You learn to work around that as you would anywhere. Fortunately for me, I have only had one instructor that I felt was a total waste of time and money. I complained about him as I would in a more "traditional" college atmosphere...and I'm sure nothing was done about it.

I have been challenged by the majority of the classes that I have completed, and with just 3 more classes to go, I'm generally satisfied with the learning process.

Of course there are unscrupulous recruiters that would have no problem enrolling a 75-year-old woman with no computer skills as I read in one of the posts. I find it hard to believe that this woman has the GPA that was stated, or if she is even still in the program. As I have learned a lot of the instructors have no tolerance for students that are not prepared to work, as well as those that need to be explained the process. However, those issues are not issues of UOP but more or so issues of the open enrollment system. A system that Northwestern University is even considering.

Whether we care to admit the reality or not...most institutions of higher education are for profit in some form or fashion. This can be represented in reputations, and or in donations.

My complaints stem from a specific set of UOP employees. The "academic advisors" and lets just use that term loosely.... are probably some of the least informed, smoke blowers on the planet. Which leads one to wonder where UOP gets their employees.

They are a lesson in suspension of disbelief. Not one of them has the same answer for the same question, which means they are not even adhering to a "pat" corporate answer...for the most part they are just simply lying or "winging it". When you are working with or advising adults that practice can pose just a few problems.

I found this to be at issue when attempting to add a concentration in Marketing to my MBA. My advisor was misinformed and thusly misinformed me, all the while stating that he wanted to make sure I was happy. That "we just here to serve you" attitude does not work if in fact they are lying about what is available. Needless to say if you enroll @ UOP seeking an MBA don't try to get a concentration in Marketing cause it ain't gonna happen.

This might not be the right place to post this concern but I need the right anwsers and I am pretty sure you guys have them.

I am currently enrolled in the UoP and am questioning my choice. I guess the question I am trying to ask is once you complete your degree, did you find it useful?

I consider myself a hardworker, but have always felt a normal school was not for me. Now I am currently enrolled and I feel the content I am recieving is not enough and only being 22 and very concerned about my future.

I guess the other question I am trying to ask is ... Will this help me in my financial success for the future or am I just wasting money to keep my personal income at 35K

any help??

I am currently a very frustrated student of UOP. First let me say - I have found the education and the facilitators to be superb! I have attended an "on-ground" physical university and UOP online and I have to admit - I am getting a far better "real world" education here. I have take 30 courses at UOP and in all I can say there have only been two facilitators that seem sub-standard (because they simply were not involved). However, for the most part I have had the honor to work with facilitators that I greatly admire and respect and and not only learned so much from but have established relationships with that have benefited me in every aspect of my professional and intellectual life.

However, the university itself - the business organization is another issue all together. Despite being reassured that I would complete my degree in 2 years (with 2 years worth of credits to transfer) I am now finishing my 4th year and am two classes away from done and once again ame being "screwed" on my financial aid (loans). Turns out, after being rushed to enroll and get started they only accepted about 1/2 of my transfer credits with one excuse or another. And the financial situation is horrid! I truly believe the organization is about making money at any cost - which means ripping off the students. If you are attend UOP I advise you to watch your FAFSA disbursements and invoices very closely!! They make mistakes. Point is - the closer I get to completion the more "loopholes" they find to keep me enrolled and keeep me paying out of pocket. Truth is - it would have been cheaper, faster and more credible to have gone to Loyla or North Western.

I absolutely do not believe that UoP is just a degree mill. I attended a community college and it was not the same work load; nor level of discipline required to attend online. UoP has been far more challenging; however, the rewards have been equally beneficial.

I can tell you that I have learned to interact with people from all walks of life from as far away as Syria, Thailand, London, Jamaica, across the US and many other places. Diverse teams collaborate on how to solve sometimes extremely complex assignments. We make real work happen within a five week period—all virtually as a team. There is even more interaction with people then what I ever experienced in the traditional classroom.

The main classroom environment encourages thoughtful discussions around the related topics. We see a vast number of businesses come together with the end result of learning how IT is applied throughout the industry.

Other classes I have been fortunate enough to learn about topics ranging from world commerce, philosophy and even ethics to name a few. There were controversial case studies and topics that we addressed respectfully with one another. Through it all, I have learned skills that have taught me how to see both sides of a topic.

The curriculum has been challenging and I have had to work all evening as well as the majority of my weekends to maintain a 4.0 GPA. That in itself boasts the level of effort required to achieve the highest level of achievement. Within my programming classes I have written program in C, Java, SQL, HTML, JavaScript, and more. These have not been simply “Hello World.”

UoP has taught me to love to learn beyond simple achievements for a job requirement. I now love to research; I have grown as a person in more then one, all due to the way UoP is structured. With three classes left in the BSIT program, I can sincerely say that this is an experience I will never forget.

I am in my third year of study at California State University, Bakersfield. I quit my full-time job to attend school. It's been tough, requiring most all of my time to study, but the payoffs will be worth it. Why didn't I consider UOP? A friend of mine got his "BA" there and brags about how easy it was. No tests in "upper level" courses! He also brags about "how I didn't have to listen to a bunch of liberal teachers." Great diversity here. They tell you that tests are not a "good" way to measure academic success. Just meet with your friends once a week, go to class maybe once a week, talk about the subject and maybe turn in some sort of paper. Wowwee! There is no way an individual can pick up university-level training in a UOP "class." I would challenge any UOP graduate to take a comprehensive "brick and mortar" exam in the subject they "passed" at UOP. My suspicion is the UOP degree-buyer could not pass a real college exam. I know many employers that say they will accept a UOP diploma, but admit they automatically deposit those applications straight into the trash bin. There is no lazy way to attend college and come out with an actual, quality education. If you do not have the time or energy to attend college, please don't embarass yourself during an interview when you present your joke diploma to the interview panel. They typically will see you as lazy and will most likely hire the applicant who took the time, energy, and expense to survive the rigors of college. Go to a real college. Stay up late doing homework. Sweat out tests. Spend countless hours at the library performing original research. Spend your money wisely and insure your future. Don't you think it's kind of silly to have to defend "accredited status" of your university? When I graduate with my BA, and then my Masters, I will display my diploma proudly because I had the guts and determination to earn it. UOP degrees aren't earned - they are purchased, and anyone who argues that point is just kidding themself.

To all:

I have had experiences with both UNM and UT and in juxtapose to my education with UOP; I find one huge flaw that overshadows most complaints. A student may work hard and write excellent papers at UOP; yet, similar grades are given to those who do not excel or care. The school should adopt a more astringent grading policy with its students. Until this is done, the school will be considered a diploma-mill.
Steven
Cordialy,
Steven

I graduated from UoPhx with a BS degree; I also have attended a Cal State university for two years. I found UoP online to be a great way of learning. You will always find good and bad instructors anywhere you go. Most of my instructor were great, and had no problems giving low grades to the students that could not do the work or even failing them. No it not perfect, but neither is any university. UoP was set up for walking adults, so you going to get a wide range of students in your classes. People need to do their research and decide what is the best university for them. I find it is so easy for people to complain and blame others when they have a problem. Try it if you don’t like it then move on.

This is a fascinating discussion. I'm a regional marketing director at University of Phoenix as a well as a faculty member for both the ground and online modalities. I appreciate such candid comments from everyone on this board.

The challenge we have here is one illuminated by several: we're both a business and a university. As much as we like to believe that it's a simple matter to integrate the two, when I walk from my office into a classroom, I assure you: it's a very different world. We're beholden to two masters. The first is to you the students. The second is to the street. I've heard comments that lead me to think many believe those two are inverted, that we have more interest in the street and the stock than to students. I certainly won't belittle you by trying to convince you otherwise, but I will say that *I* don't believe that, nor does my team.

I did hear an industry pundit make the comment once, "All universities are for-profit universities. Most of them just aren't run that well." I ask a variant of this to my industry peers (yeah, the fact that I'm even *using* the word industry here is a sign of the times, right?): Show me one school, public or private, that does *not* want to put more students in their classrooms. Education is a service industry here, and the growth train has left the station.

Supporting so many thousands of students is not an easy job and sometimes, in an effort to find greater efficiencies, messages get lost and people get frustrated. It's a dance, this thing we do, and it's not always pretty.

I, too, come from big education, and I speak to administrators from time to time at other Universities trying to leverage the same efficiencies we've mastered to greater affect in their institutions. All of us (Universities both public and private) are facing issues of financial aid shortfall; attendance and grade inflation in the classroom; students coming to us not prepared in basic reading, writing, and math skills; and the list goes on and on. We're all trying to deal with the new student demographic in a way that satisfies a rigorous course offering and allows students to achieve the level of success they deserve based on the effort they put into the work. Question of the time: How do you balance a shifting demographic in the classroom between new, recent high school graduates coming to us unprepared in core skills with seasoned professionals with 10-15 years of experience in their field? How do you help these groups learn from one another? Can they learn from one another?

I'm frustrated by the lack of apparent concern with the value of alumni as well. Any university is only as valuable as the degrees it produces in the hands of productive alumni. We're not doing a sound enough job of helping to make our graduates famous.

Dave, I'm a new reader and poster here, but thanks for the great blog. I appreciate your thoughts and demeanor and look forward to visiting again.

Pete Wright
University of Phoenix, Northwest Region
peter dot wright at phoenix dot edu

Mr. Wright,

You may believe that your larger commitment is to the student, but I will tell you that here in Northern California, your colleagues place more emphasis on their stockholders than their students. Why would I believe this? Because in response to a complaint I had about the lack of notification when Financial Aid Counselors are changed - I'm on my fourth since Feb. 05 - my Campus Manager/Academic Supervisor replied, "well, if you were a stockholder, would you invest in a company that could go under based upon the mistake of one counselor in an office in Sacramento?" During this conversation, he never once discussed the state of customer service at the school, rather he toed the company line the entire time.

Besides the fact that his answer did not address my issue - I was simply seeking some notification of a change in Financial Aid Counselors, not a debate on the requirements of the SEC and investors - your colleague showed the true colors of the school. This is but one of many experiences with Uof P staff that have left me frustrated and angry in less than a year. I'm halfway through my BSM program and my experience in the classroom has been wonderful. My experiences with the staff have been mediochre at best. It is clear that administration is interested only in my money and not the service I receive in exchange for that money. It is a sad commentary that as a secretary I am more professional in demeanor and action than the staff I deal with at University of Phoenix, an institution that touts itself as geared towards working professionals. I truly believe that if people knew of the frustration and stress caused by the Financial Aid and Administrative staff of U of P before they enrolled the institution would not exist.

I could go on and on but do not wish to abuse the space provided by Dave. I welcome your rebuttal and would be happy to discuss this further. I believe that U of P provides a necessary service. However, the way in which the administrative and financial staff handle and treat the students of the school is dismal and resembles nothing close to customer service.

Ann

Ann,

First, please, it's Pete. "Mr. Wright" sounds like and indictment. :-)

Second, I don't have much in the way of a rebuttal. I stand by my comments in the earlier post and I'm truly sorry for your frustration.

Clearly, you are not alone. And I don't want to demean your experience at all with excuses and rationalizations. In the back of my mind, I have this hope that yours is an isolated experience, that our sheer scope of 300,000 students offers the vast majority of them a great experience both in and out of the classroom. Still, there's a little issue of "span of control".

University of Phoenix is divided into regions. Mine happens to be the NW and it doesn't include California. Nor does it include Financial Aid. So, while I wish I could tell you that I'm implementing a new training initiative, along with a new hiring program that focuses on customer service, I can't do that.

I also can't condone your contact's response, if only because I don't understand it. What does that even *mean*??

Yours -- and all these comments -- are helping me define a theme for our organizational development, however. How can we *say* we're a customer service organization when we have these incidents (even if they're isolated)? Just because we gear ourselves toward busy students who have to work while attending school does not cover the customer service excellence we must employ. So, what I *can* do is continue to carry the flag in my organization. And I pledge to do that, to get the right people involved at the right level to see a change.

In the meantime, I'll ask you this: you say your experience in the classroom has been wonderful. Please, focus on that. Give us some time to work through these issues, study hard, and let's help each other be successful.

As ever, I'm open to comments. I might not be able to check this thread for a spell, but I'll shoot you a private email if you'd like to talk further.

Best,

pw

This is to Keith and all others who feel that the effort to obtain a degree at UOP is not valid. My undergrad is from a prestigious private college in Michigan call Aquinas. I have 15 credits toward a Masters in Computer Science from a Michigan state college. So, I feel I am qualified to state that UOP is not a diploma mill.

I have taken tests in many in the classes I have attended. I spend at least 20 hours a week studying and researching to write papers and complete projects. There are lectures (for the person who said there are not lectures) for each week of the class, as well as objectives to meet for each class.

Regarding the grades, my grade point average is 3.62. The grades have not been easy to obtain. In fact, my lowest grade was a B in Statistics, which is true to form for me. This is because, even though I am great at computers, my math skills have always been weak. Also, this was one of the classes in which I had to take a mid-term and final test.

In comparison to the other colleges in which I attended, attending UOP has been the most challenging. I have grown tremendously. I also have learned more about the world and business then I ever could have at a "traditional" college.

My goal is not to find a job--I wanted knowledge for my own business--this is what I got. I only have three classes left and I already have an impressive business plan.

One final thing. I know people who have gotten MBAs from "accepted" colleges who could not help me with the work I was doing at UOP--to me, that says something.

I recently finished my Business Management degree from University of Phoenix in June 2005. I enjoyed the school and would attend again. The course work was atleat the same if not tougher than the classes I attended here at Portland State. Anyone interested in attending a night school should definetly look into UoP. Is UoP a degree mill? Yes and no. I have seen several classmates leave because of the demanding school work. I have also seen people skate by doing very little work. Although, these people were hated by their group members. The quality of your education, as an above blogger said, "is what you put into it.

I want to chime in once again. I am offended that Phoenix continues to be called "degree" or "diploma mill". It is not either. Following is the definition of a "degree mill".

A degree mill is defined as any degree-granting body that is not accredited by a federally recognized accreditation body.

Now the definition of a "diploma mill"

A diploma mill (also known as a degree mill) is an organization which awards academic degrees and diplomas with very little or no academic study and without recognition by official accrediting bodies. Such organizations are unaccredited by standards of traditional institutions, but they often claim accreditation by non-standard organizations set up for the purposes of providing a veneer of authenticity. Many diploma mills claim to offer these qualifications on the basis of life experience but most of them require a payment to issue a diploma/degree certificate without having to provide them with any educational documents; they do not evaluate one's academic potential. They are used to fraudulently claim academic credentials for use in securing employment (e.g., a schoolteacher might get a degree from one in order to advance to superintendent).

Now, Phoenix is accredited by the higher learning comission / north central association of schools; the same body that accredits the University of Arizona. UOP is recognized as accredited by the CHEA (www.chea.org). Also, they are a canditate for ACBSP accreditation, a recognized professional business accreditor.

The MBA program, of which I am part, is a two-year program. So, there is extensive academic study. I had to have at least 2.5 GPA from my undergrad (I know most grad programs want 3.0)and I had to have my transcript sent to prove that I did have an undergrad degree. So, that means academic credentials and academic potential are assessed before enrollment. I know UOP is not the cream of the crop, but I believe they do deliver a legitimate education. They are not a "degree" or "diploma" mill. Like any other mid-range University in the U.S. they have their strengths and their weaknessess. According to most of the posts I have read, their weakness in in their computer education. However, it seems their strength is in their grad studies. I am glad I chose UOP for my grad studies.

I am currently attending my third class at UOP and am enrolled in the Undergraduate Bussiness Finance prgoram.

The facilatiros are wonderful, the classes are wonderful and the work is tuff. All wonderful!

My financial aid counselor is the biggest moron I have ever known to exist. She is my second financial aid counselor and I have only taken 3 classes. I had a problem with the financial aid and my employer is footing 75% of the bill. Her response was "I do not know, sorry" and that was the end of the disccusion. After leaving messages for three days on her supervisor's voice mail I recived a reponse from her at my home voice mail "Please deal with your financial aid counselor, she is here to help you" *click*

I then contacted my academic counselor explained I needed to drop out of the UOP due to this issue. She contacted her manager and had the problem solved that night.

The classroom is a wonderful learning enviorment. I have learned a great deal, there is no way that they just hand out degrees. My employer encourages the use of online universiteis as they allow the employee to be flexible for the employers needs.

As mentioned previously after each class UOP gives you a survey and I was asked a few weeks back to fil out a survey for the President of the University. I always ask that someone please contact me espically in regard to my financial counselor. I have never once been contacted.

The academic side of UOP is top notch. The UOP staff form the worst customer service from a company I have ever dealt with and I do everything possible to avoid interacting with the financial aid office. Sad that I can not contact my financial counselor in fear that if she access my records she will screw something up.

I've attended UOP Online since Nov. 2004. I have 4 classes left in my MIS/M program. I expect to graduate in July '06

I think the work load is slightly more than other accelerated adult education programs. I was in a program for my BS which was 1 day a week for 5 weeks. I did about 10 hours a week of work.

I would say that in any given week I do work for school 5-6 days during the week. The postings get tedious and the discussion questions pose little challenge and seem like busy work.

I'm up in the air if I think it's a worthwhile program. I know you only get out what you put in. The last couple of classes I haven't put much in so I haven't got much out!

I certainly have not been buying a degree. It's been a lot of work and time. I have not gotten less than A- but came close to some B's

I attended Saddleback Community College in CA, The University of Arizona, Pima Community College (Tucson) and Grand Canyon University. Finally UOP Online. I'd say they all offer similar challenges and I've learned a lot.

I've had some bad instructors at UOP Online, but I've had bad instructors at all my schools!

how can I find out the real scoop on what a diploma from UOP is gonna get me? I don't wan't to get laughed at. I figured since the Navy's Tuition Assistance will pay for UOP they must be legit. I can't see the government throwing away money like that.

Shawn, I have read much information about UOP. My response is that you have to decide what you want from your education. Some people want education and prestige. I am attending UOP because I am getting the education and the convenience. I am not concerned about what other people think. I am getting the education to run my own business. I would suggest that if you are concerned about prestige, then UOP is not the school for you. If you want the education and the convenience then it would be. It is legitimate and not a phoney school as most try to portray it. If the negative comments about its prestige bother you then look elsewhere. I hope this helps.

Shawn,

As I posted before, the learning experience and the education are good. I have never worked so hard at school in my life and in return I have found that I am able to apply what I am learning to my professional life.

What the degree will get me when I graduate? Well, I'm not sure. I have heard two things:

One, that somehow we have taken the easy way out from a university that doesn't hold any credibility in the working world.

Two, that the way employers view University of Phoenix is no different than they view any other college.

I live in a college town and University of Phoenix is trashed right and left here. Why? Well, I believe it is for many reasons, the biggest being that the state college in my town is one of the biggest employers and economic contributors to my town. But I also don't think that people understand the commitment and work associated with working full-time and attending school in the non-traditional way the UoP students do. Yes, we will finish faster than traditional students, but we work twice as hard. I am completing my second of two Finance classes now. My boss teaches Finance at the local college. When I asked him a question about what we were covering in class, his response was "Oh, wow, I don't teach that, so I'm not really any help there." This is the controller of the company I work for and an instructor of Finance at the local state college. It was not the first time during my experience at UoP that I realized I am at an institution that covers topics that requires students to be able to stretch themselves beyond what they, and others, may have been expecting.

Does the university have problems? Yes, and I have had instructors that had no business in the classroom - just as I have at traditional school. Fortunately, or not, my experience has been that the majority of the school's problems lie on the administrative and financial side of things and not education.

So, while this may not exactly answer your question, I believe it is truly a question of what you expect from your degree. No degree, from any institution, is an automatic pass to your dream job. What is your work experience? What is your goal? How does your education, regardless of institution, support those two things? Those are the questions companies are looking at. Your education is one part of a larger equation.

This is just my opinion, someone else may have a more quantitative answer for you.

Ann

I have attended a variety of "Hard site" schools while I was in the Army and out. University of Mexico, University of Maryland, and Penn State University. My fourth year I transfered to UOP due to increasingly difficult conflicts with my work and travel schedule.

I know this gang.....anyone and everyone gets out of school what they put into it. I have sat next to "Rocks" at Penn State and shared the online enviornment with a few in the learning groups at UOP. Across the board the workload is tough if you take it seriously. If not, it wont matter where you get your degree from, you will still be exposed and pushed out of a good company.

UOP published the sucessful careers of it's graduates. You don't have to look hard to see a great deal of them rising quickly to the top. In the six years I have been out of the Army I have gone from a second shift production supervisor at a Foam plant to assuming my seven month old position as a Plant Manager for TYCO International. None of this would have been possible without the assitance of UOP and thier commitment to Adult learners.

Degrees open doors....that's it. After that, its up to you to "Sell the goods".

I know some people who sit around and laugh at UOP degrees and waive thier brick and mortar paper around to anyone who will listen. Many of them don't know UOP is where I graduated from. That's too bad.......they all work for me. "Chuckle".

Starting the MBA there now.....hope to see you there!

Hello All,

I am currently a student at northern Virginia University, where I am doing an MBA/TM (half done).

1) Enrolling was easy, any school that does not require any kind of minimum level promotes a diverse classroom as UOP puts it, in reality it means very bad from very good students --- with a tendency to get more bad than good.
2) The on-ground class experience was "diverse" as well. Some instructors were very organized and challenging and make you feel good about UOP, but most of them had a "do the minimum" attitude.. which means arriving late, spending 1 hour talking about things unrelated to the class, having 30 minutes breaks and finishing 30 minutes earlier. What you get from these classes is what you can get from the books… I haven't done the online version but I am assuming it should be more challenging.
3) As far as how "hard" it is to get a job with UOP, let's get real and take the example of an MBA
a. If you are a fresh out of college job seeker and the only thing you have is the pedigree of you diploma, in this case UOP might not be the best thing to get through the first interview.
b. If you are a professional with some experience, what really matters is what you have accomplished so far and how well you will be able to sell yourself. If you are applying for a job that requires an MBA, than any MBA will do (OK if you are applying for an executive position in a company that is full of Yales MBAs, you might have a problem, meaning your professional accomplishments will be even more important, but how many of you are applying for these jobs).
4) Getting an MBA or any other master does not mean you get to master something (do you think you can master finance or marketing in a 6 week class, even if it was at Yale it would not be true), getting a degree means your "should be" aware of some concepts, that's it. Your mastery comes for months and years of working in a field. This is why your MBA degree only takes one line in your CV and your job experience takes lines and lines. Unfortunately MBAs are also used as an IQ measure "one is supposed to be smarter if she or he got an MBA from NOVA University versus UOP". This is not 100% true but unfortunately there are some valid reasons to think so (no testing for enrollment, no tests in classes..). Even if IQ is not everything, some managers are net that subtitle and give too much importance to the brand name.

5) That is the problem; Branding has a real and huge value, which happens to not always reflect the true quality of the product. Since UOP is a for profit corporation they should know this very basic business rule, but they do ABSOLUTLY NOTHING TO PROMOTE AND IMPROVE THEIR BRAND. When I read all these threads, I do not think the problem is the way the concepts are delivered to students at UOP versus at any other school, this is not all that black and white.

6) UOP suffers from a bipolar syndrome. When it comes to get your money, they act as a corporation with profit objectives. When it comes to the services that they provide you could think that as a corporation they would treat you as a customer but they don't. They treat you as a student, and there is a big difference.
a. Because the Brand is so important, UOP should treat students as customers and ensure that they are always happy customers, customers which are proud of their product and will not bad mouth it to other potential prospects. Does UOP care NO. UOP minimize their costs and we end-up with unqualified support such as academic counselors and so on. UOP should know that a taken care and happy customer would forget the problems, and that an unhappy customer will always remember, exaggerate the problems and badmouth the product to whoever is willing to listen.
b. Why do managers think UOP is degree mill? not because they are experts in the quality of the instructors or students at UOP, but because they have been told so. And by whom have they been told UOP is a degree mill, by the competition but mostly by the UNHAPPY customers of UOP.
7) The biggest problem of UOP is the total lack of care that is given to the students/customers satisfaction. It is not normal that a UOP director of marketing is happy to read comments form students in this blog (Ok it's better than nothing). That is already too late, UOP should conduct its own customer surveys internally (which they do, but they close their eyes on the problems, so it does not count), and THRULLY have corrective actions to increase the customers satisfaction. On this thread I would say that there is a 50% satisfaction ratio, well how do you think it compares to a Toyota or any other corporation ? not good at all.
8) I do not think that NOVA or Devitry or PENSTATE are better than UOP, I just think that UOP as an image problem and a management that does not understand the role of brand, nor alumni.

I have said what I thought about UOP, I am not leaving because I am not sure which other university will truly be better (I could get worse), and this is not like a TV that you can return and keep shopping around easily, you are somehow stuck, unless you do not mind loosing credits.

I started my MBA with a version 19 and now UOP is going to a version 20. I already know I will have to switch, but I cannot find any counselor that can really explain what the difference is, does any one of you know that?

Thanks for your feedback.

I am about to finish my second class in the BSIT degree program at UOP. I got my associates degree at a "brick and mortar" college. I have to say that most of the coursework has been challenging. I have only taken Critical Thinking classes, and there is only so much of that a person can swallow. I am OK with most things at the school, but for 2 classes in a row, I have had half of my learning teams either quit or not participate. Drives me crazy that people spend money to do nothing. My 2 instructors have been so-so, but my biggest pet peeve is the staff. It routinely takes 7+ days to get a response from my Financial Advisior, and to this day I have NOT received a response from an e-mail I sent my regular advisor at the end of January. What the heck is the deal with that? When they wanted me to attend school, they called me and left messages on every phone number I gave and e-mails in every address I gave. Now that I am in, I havent heard a peep. Hmmm, makes you wonder dont it!

I will say that I work in the IT industry, and have for almost 4 years (after an 18 year military career) and I love my job. I was looking to get my BSIT so I could move up in the company. But at this juncture, I am not sure I want to be a 43 year old graduate with a 30,000 student loan to pay off.

I am opting for MS and Cisco certifications.

I have been following this blog for a while now. My experience at UOP has been really good. It seems that many have problems with the service. For me, the service has been excellent. I am now approaching the last 13 weeks of my time at UOP. My degree will be a MBA/EB. I have had excellent service from both my Academic Advisor and my Financial Advisor. In fact, I have been emailed each time I received a new advisior. I am taking the class online. Maybe the current online experience is better then the land. I don't know. Anyway, I am happy with my education. I am not happy with the stigma of Phoenix, but I believe my knowledge shows.

I decided to do an internet search re. market value of a grade from the UoP and ended up reading 95% of the messages in this blog. Thanks Dave! I work full time, have 3 kids (with homework), and I am in the CJA undergrad program. I'm currently taking a "break" from classes. The last time I took classes, I managed to finish 4 in a row! For me it's a pretty exhausting process, because I'm driven to make straight A's. My exhaustion is directly related to the UoP's team requirement for each class and not letting any team members impact on a current class grade, even if it means I write the team's paper alone and give nonparticipating team members credit for no work. In a team of 4 or 5 people, it's really wonderful to have one person you can count on to stay up with you when you're trying to meet a paper's posting deadline. In a group of 4 or 5 people, one person will know how to put a paper together, be able to write, be able to edit and will have the technological skills to post a paper. Person #2 will fully participate and support Person #1, will admit to not knowing APA formatting, BUT will contribute his/her portion of the paper. Person #3 will sporadically participate, might contribute what they are supposed to for the paper (you won't have it until the last minute) and this person will not know APA formatting or will have incorrectly cited their quoted material. Person #4/5 may or may not check into the group and if this person bothers to submit something for the group's paper, what they post may either be plagiarized material or may be so off topic that Person #1 ends up writing the section of the paper Person #4/5 was supposed to. What this means is that the person in charge of the team's paper has to make sure it's correctly formatted, that it's grammatically correct, that there's no plagiarism, and that each cite AND quotation is correct and correctly APA formatted. After at least five classes where this happened, I learned to just take charge from the beginning of the class (What! You need an outline for a paper???). I have always considered it a bonus if any members of the team contributed or provided a paragraph that made sense.

What I love about the courses I have taken so far is that they are over really fast. In five weeks, there are no opportunities for boredom and students have no choice but to keep up or drop out of the class. I've also picked up on a few other things. Since UoP is a private institution and their goal, really, is to attract and keep students (there's the profit motive), as a student I'm in a "buyer's" position as a customer or consumer. For instance, if during the 5-week course I find that I cannot stand one of the students who's written word is the cat's meow (or I'm with a bunch of people who don't do the teamwork), I just call my academic counselor and tell her that I will not be traveling with this particular group of students to the next class. I quickly found out that groups of students are moved along from class to class together. Sometimes the mix changes, but the general idea is that the group you're with travels together. NOT!! If I'm paying $1500 per class, I think I'm entitled to be discriminating about who I'm learning from.

For one class I was supposed to take recently, I discovered that the online version of the book we would be using at a cost of $80 (whatever the online e-fee is) could be purchased in hard copy for between $5 and $20. Reason? The new edition was coming out a month after my course was starting. If you are paying that much for an e-Book -- it might as well be the most current edition of the book. BTW, I can't stand e-Books, though I love downloading them. ha ha Oh -- one other point -- sometimes the online editions of the books we have to use do not include the index from the back of the book. When you're turning through 10 chapters of a book you've printed on a printer (which makes it seem as though there's paper everywhere!) with no index, finding something you need in the book can be a trial.

Continuing some thoughts about being the consumer and those facilitators who are a mess, you can usually tell within the first day of the class. All you have to do is review their syllabus and watch how the facilitator interreacts with students as they check into the class. But the syllabus is the most important thing to take a look at. Since most of the communication at the UoP online is written communication, everyone's personality comes through. After you have read through the syllabus ask yourself the following: Does the syllabus make sense? Is the syllabus organized? Check out the dates on the syllabus. Do they match the calendar? Has the syllabus been updated? Are there any typos or grammatical errors? Believe me, all of this is a window to the soul of the facilitator. If you get that nagging feeling -- just do what I do, and call your academic advisor to be transferred out of the class and into the one that starts the following week. Oh, and one more thing. Try to get as much information as possible about the facilitator and the syllabus BEFORE you post a message to the class chat room to check into the class. If you post and check into the class and then decide to transfer, you may be charged a fee for the week. Anyway, that's what my academic counselor told me when this happened to me. I had checked in but then transferred out. Luckily, I was not charged a fee.

What else do I like about the UoP: Being able to attend the class anytime of the day is a bonus (and not having to drive and park to attend). Most facilitators will have a participation and assignment deadline of Mountain time.

I keep thinking of things I should mention and here's one more. While doing some research for a paper or papers, I frequently have ended up on web pages maintained by professors at other major universities. Guess what! They post their syllabi. Guess what else! The syllabus I find will frequently closely match the syllabus for a current class I'm taking. If you continue sniffing around the professor's pages, you can augment your UoP class with the lecture notes from a professor at another major university. WOW!!

And one last comment. I have to agree with everyone else who said that they learned more and participated more compared to their experience at other colleges/Univ. they had attended. When you are posting online, you don't have to worry about being afraid to post your true thoughts about any point. Now, politeness goes a long way, but you don't have to worry about political correctness. Sure, you may make ten enemies by voicing your opinions, but that's the beauty (and fun) of the UoP experience. I have not found that any of my facilitators have graded me adversely for not going along with the political (or religious -- yes, sometimes there's religion in the classes) climate of a class.

As a senior level government professional, my only advice to those considering a degree from UOP is to carefully evaluate the reputation and general perception of a school like UOP before investing a lot of time and money. While you may work hard and learn a lot from such a program, it may all come down to the fact that from a hiring standpoint, UOP has a 'degree mill' reputation, and your degree will not be regarded nearly as well as one from a traditional, not-for-profit college. I would caution you not to make a huge investment in a degree you will be defending, fairly or not, for the rest of your career.

Julie. Thank you for your intelligent advice. It is sad, but true, UOP is considered a degree mill--even though it is not. It has a better reputation were I live because of the local land campus. Also, I am using it just for the knowledge--even thought it is expensive. However, if if were not for those two elements, I would have chosen a more reputable school. I have learned a lot though. It will be nice when UOP shakes the degree mill stigma. I believe it will. All underdogs have their day.

I am currently a student in the UOP online MM program...I hope to graduate in September. My overall feelings are positive in the sense that the work has been challenging and requires a lot of discipline despite its flexibility. The online program is not for everyone. I'm one of those people who can't sit and listen to someone lecture...I get bored and my mind begins to wander. Completing this program in the privacy of my own home, on MY time is an absolute blessing. I work full-time; I'm a mom of two kids (one on the way). I started having some complications during this pregnancy and ended up in the hospital for a week. That would have been time lost on a regular campus and would have created a big mess for me academically. However, the online program allowed me to connect through a wireless network and I was able to rest and recover AND keep up with my class.

Now, I've also seen the negatives...wondering how some of my classmates ever made it into a Masters program...professors who didn't provide constructive feedback...poor grammar and communication skills by some foreign students...etc. However, these things have not discouraged me. I was an average 2.5 GPA undergrad student (went away to college at 16...big mistake!) so, at 35 (realizing the importance of a higher education) I had to work to get accepted at UOP. Yes, I was able to enroll in classes, but it took maintaining a 3.5 GPA (I currently have a 3.94) in 15 hours of coursework in my program to go from conditional to full acceptance. It was not easy.
Every class that I've completed has related directly to my field and has allowed me to advance with my organization. I've encountered at least 10 employees who are students at UOP enrolled in a Masters program and based on the feedback and reactions from upper management, they don't see UOP as a degree mill.

I really think that your work and experience will prove it in the end.

Frances:
It looks like UOP's status is finally starting to improve. Thank you, it is making me feel better to read positive comments about UOP--as it relates to the working world.

I have been a student at UOP for fifteen months now and getting ready to start my upper level courses for a business management degree. I was enrolled for IT, after taking a class with a few people that had just come from the IT program, their enthusiasm about the program was kind of lack-luster at best. These classmates had explained to me that the IT program had very little hands on learning and offered little job opportunity in the area that I live in. It was researching the this that I found negative posts about UOP, after all it seems most of this forum?s topics were about UOP?s IT program.

One thing I have noticed about a lot of these posts; most are directed towards the online learning process. One of the reasons I decided my time would be better spent at UOP in the business management program is because it is not flex-net and you still go to a class on-ground once a week for four hours. I feel this is a better way to learn if you do not have the discipline for online classes. Where I live the IT and business administration programs were both flex net.

It is a shame that UOP is considered a degree-mill to many people and the thought of defending the validity and quality of my degree does not sound appealing. Just like many others comments I have read here, there are good students and poor students at UOP. I too have seen sub-standard work handed in for favorable grades, but just like many others here have said ?you get out what you put in? is definitely true of UOP.

I would say that the quality of teachers at UOP is very high, the fact that they are all working individuals in the ?real world? makes this a bonus ? they have a lot of good advice that you will not find at a regular college with professors whose only jobs are to teach. I also feel like people ?skate by? sometimes and that since instructors know how much they are paying (A Lot!) to go to school there they deserve to pass. The formula for success can be as easy as handing in all of your work and attending all of your classes.

You can learn as much at UOP as anywhere else, if you choose to. I am not defending UOP just because I attend there. I know my attitude, personality, and qualifications will define how successful I am at life, not where my degree is from.

I hope this post helps anyone out there make trying to make a decision about UOP, if it does please let me know. I usually never post anything and would like to know if someone, anyone has read this.

I heard you Dave...

It is a shame that some consider UOP (&Online) a degree mill. After perusing many Internet sites focused on this topic, the general consensus for this 'degree mill' misconception is based on several anecdotal factors.

Grade Inflation

The proverbial easy 'A' without any work. Many claim the instructional material to be invalid because it is so easy to get an 'A.' I did not find that to be true, and I believe the grading philosophy follows the model that everyone starts out with an 'A' and must maintain the grade through successful completion of all assignments, written papers, individual and group participation. I was excited to achieve a cumulative 3.97 GPA, yet in community college my cumulative GPA at graduation time was 3.73. A quarter grade point difference does not appear to be a substantial margin of inflation.

Lack of Multiple Choice or Fill-in Type Examinations

The coursework is primarily project based in that the focus is upon research both individually and also through virtual collaboration with the assigned teams. Additionally, the participation requirement is very effective because of the virtual 'Socratic' approach to instruction. One is forced to think through the questions presented and to formulate some conclusion which is then subject to the scrutiny and rebuttal or agreement by either the classmates or the facilitator.
I am not convinced that rote memorization of facts to prepare for multiple choice or fill-in examinations constitutes a better approach to learning than does researching and writing papers. For me, knowing how to find information quickly or how to apply critical thinking to evaluate the results of those findings is a much more valuable skill. One thing I noticed throughout my time at UOP was the everpresent undercurrent and constant urging to revisit both writing and critical thinking skills. Although these items were the emphasis in the communication based courses, there were constant reminders both from the course material as well as the facilitators.

Facilitators versus Instructors

UOP Online does not have teachers. [I do not know if the ground campuses use facilitators or instructors.] One of the motivations for an online learning environment is the student's desire and initiative for self-directed learning. Although, the facilitators allegedly take on a secondary role in a sense, I personally found their individual contributions to be as poignant is ground school instruction.

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However, to be fair, UOP (especially online) does have some glaring faults which may contribute to a negative perception of the university. Yet, UOP should not be singled out as this can be the byproduct of any online educational environment.

Inequitable Sharing of Team Workload

In my opinion, this aspect should receive more [much more] attention by the course facilitators and the university in general. In the ideal sense, the workload should be divided evenly amongst the team participants. In about 60% of my courses, there was a more than adequate amount of workload distribution; however, in the remaining courses, there was at least one team member who shirked responsibility. Fortunately, this was known early on (usually by the second week) and accommodations were made to redistribute assignment tasks to meet project deadlines. Interestingly enough, the slackers simulated a typical work environment where the same phenomenon occurs whether through personnel reassignment or other reasons.

Lax Admission Standards

In several courses I experienced some classmates who were definitely not adequately prepared for university level work, especially in the writing arena. On the flipside, I agree that anyone should have a chance to complete a college education. Since UOP is a private institution and needs students to thrive, the school does make it easy for some to slip through the cracks, especially to boost the bottom line.

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The IT Degree

This program receives a substantial amount of bad press. I do not think UOP positioned this degree in the best possible light. It is basically a technology management program focused on theory rather than any specific technology skill. I would agree that someone without any previous IT experience and just this degree may find it difficult to acclimate to a typical and demanding IT environment today. The degree program is more geared towards already established professionals who are more technologically inclined as opposed to business-minded and find it impossible to maintain a regular school schedule. The goal is for the graduates to become better decision makers in the organization.
What makes the program great for IT personnel is the sharing of experience between all of the class members. Exposure to different systems management philosophies and solutions to common problems is invaluable and is immediately applicable.
In my case, I had had 7 years of professional experience prior to entering UOP Online (mostly as a developer and systems administrator), and yet the combination of main group participation, writing papers, had advanced my communication skills tremendously, both verbal and written. That facet alone makes this program invaluable.

I was searching for information on the reputation of UOP and came across this site. I finished my BSM from UOP and I am currently in the MBA program.

As far as UOP being a diploma mill I would have to respectfully disagree. I have been telling people for the last three years not to buy into the UOP commerical where they talk about how easy it is to attend UOP. It is darn difficult. I work hard. I work shift work with rotating days off so online was the only way for me to go.

I do have concerns about the UOP reputation by employers but I know I earned my degree.

Donna Vargas

Hey Folks,

I'll be starting my MIS courses on May 23 and am totally excited. When I told my boss I was going back to school, I told him that I will be attending UoP and he stated that he thought it was a "degree mill" until he had a relative graduate from here. Unfortunately, there is a "stigma" of degree mill but.....they will learn. I got my BS Finance at a "beer" and mortar school (San Diego State University), Client/Server Technology Certificate at SDSU and now I will be getting my Masters at a "degree mill". Check it out.........Undergrad Degree - "Party School", IT Certificate - "Party School", Masters Degree - "Degree Mill", Current Salary - $xxx,xxx figures.....CLASSIC!!!!!

By the way....if my current employer thought that UoP was a "degree mill", do you think they would be paying for 100% of my MIS Degree?

I have been attending UOP flexnet in the business management (bsbm) program for a year now. I too have some misgivings about the professionalism of the UOP staff, the ability for some students to receive higher grades than expected for their quality of work (but that is subjective and could occur because one is working to "their" potential), and the suggestion that this degree (from an accredited school with the Higher Learning Commission) is just handed out to whomever pays for it. I've been here before..not to UOP, but when I graduated from Ivy Tech. I had an Associates Degree and had people belittle it's importance because it wasn't from a big, traditional college. I have found that some people will always be judgemental. In Indiana, it is not uncommon for a Purdue graduate to belittle an Indiana University graduate, and vice versa. Both colleges are good, it's just someone's opinion and I've learned over the years to take opinions for what they are worth...not much in my book.
I have worked in my profession now for 13 years and have continuously grown my career. My degree seeking is as an accompaniment to my experience...a door opener for prospective employers who value the piece of paper that says I know what I am doing. Everything has pros and cons, and yes...I might have to defend this degree as well. My experience will speak volumes and I'm acquiring valuable information from my UOP experience. I am gathering more skills and education that will make me an asset to my current and future employers. Thanks to the UOP plan, I am able to attend school while; holding down a 45 hour/week management position, raising a teenage daughter and rambunctious 7 year old son (and all the homework and extracurricular activities that entails), maintaining a marraige of 15+ years and still finding some "me" time (not much mind you, but every little bit counts). This plan also lets me obtain my degree with a modicum of time, instead of 2 classes a year through my gray hair days.
So if you're considering an education at UOP, do the soul searching that only you can do. Determine why you want a degree; what you expect to accomplish once you have the degree; if you want to defend your decision to those who really don't know how UOP operates; whether image or prestige is your focal point in your desire to obtain a degree and if you're up to the challenge. It has not been a cake walk for me, but I am confident that this education is only going to help me in the long run.

I recently completed my bachelor's of science degree in business management at UoP and I am currently enrolled in their MBA program. All my classes have been online. I love the flexibility of the program - I can log on anywhere as long as I have an Internet connection. Some instructors have been better than others, but none hae been bad. I do hate non-performing team members - just like real life.

I just graduated from University of Phoenix-Midwest Campus, with an MBA in E-business. I wanted to see what type of clout my MBA had in the real world, so I put "MBA from University of Phoenix" in Yahoo's search bar. I was amazed at the results. I suggest anyone worried about whether an MBA from Phoenix has any worth, do this. I found professors who has parlayed MBAs from Phoenix into PhDs from Stanford. I also found many executives and others which listed and MBA from Phoenix as a graduate degree (proudly). This really bolstered my confidence in my degree.

I don't understand why UOP is so bashed. I noticed that Walden is also a for-profit University, but no one bashes it--UOP must be doing something right.

I wanted to correct one of the sentences in my last post. I wrote "I found professors who has parlayed MBAs. . .". I meant, "I found professors who have. . .". Thanks.

A couple of short anecdotes. . .

I had recently attended a seminar for a graduate computer science degree at a local and very high ranking private university. Shortly after the presentation, we introduced ourselves and gave quick bios emphasizing our current jobs and educational backgrounds. The second I mentioned UoP, the room became quiet and a instant chill permeated the air.

My firm contracted me to a new client for some web application architecture design and migration from multiple programming languages implementation to J2EE. An incredibly sharp UNIX sysadmin who was assigned to our company assimilation had mentioned his upcoming graduation. I asked him what school he had attended. He hesitated for a nanosecond and then blurted, "UoP Ground." I told him I had graduated nearly a year earlier from the online campus. What was our common complaint? It was the teams of course.

One of my previous work associates, a Linux enthusiast and expert, suggested that I not put the UoP BSIT degree on my resume so as to prevent automatic rejection based on filters that could be biased against UoP. I had invested 33 months total to complete the requirements for the degree. It would seem that automatically rejecting a person based on the school is yet another form of discrimination.

I think the lesson here is that a person (or potential job candidate) is a unique individual and cannot be adequately judged by the school attended. Assuming that all UoP graduates are non-performers falls under the hasty generalization logical fallacy.

While surfing the Internet, I came across this very interesting and objective article about UoP: http://www.insidehighered.com/workplace/2005/03/28/phoenix

Diploma mill? I've been to one of those where for $599.00 I received a degree for life experience. After two years at UOP and reading more than I ever did at any traditional school, I have to say that it's be